ETBlogs Soapbox - Latest Comments in Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Uncle Bunky — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:30:41 -0000

An illegal immigrant is someone who missed there plane home or overstayed a visa and came here leagally. A criminal is someone who was smuggled here sneaked in. So we have all these criminals stealing our wealth, dragging down our schools, Destroying our neighborhoods, Using our hospitals, Using our social security, Drving cars unregistered, Making companies like WM come and survive, While driving up the cost of fuel education and health care and taking away the america our founding fathers and depression and warld war two generation faught long and hard for. If we dont stop illegals and the invasion of foreigh crime all the people who died in world war two died in vein. While people like john Tierney are draft dodgers and wont resign.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:38:10 -0000

Bilge Rat , I have to agree with your fresh topics, these are getting stale thinking. The Soapbox does appear to be as limited to four or five of us writing opinions about anything that becomes a topic. The attacks on one another aren't helping any to bring more people into answering the topics . I'd have to say it scares them away in fear of being reprimanded for their written opinions . I'll be the first one to admit that I'm as guilty as any or everyone else here for being defensive in the attacks on me and the replies I've made to them. My want to avoid these things from happening again is to ignore them as best I can. I would be in hopes everyone can respect the right to give any opinion they want without the name calling and degrading comments made by some to others. I may not be as articulate as some or write as well as some but I do have my right to express my opinions as do all here on the Soapbox.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:34:50 -0000

Happy Monday, All!

Michael, when was I in "personal assassination mode"?

I've always tried to keep my posts free from personal denigrations against other posters here.....

If you're talking about the exchange with Seamus, I believe he began using the adjectival noun crusade, hence the troll post....

From Google-
troll:A troll is a user of a newsgroup, forum or message board that posts messages with the intent of inciting an argument or flame-war

We need some fresh topics, these are getting quite stale....
:-(

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:39:35 -0000

Mike , I did say MAYBE you'll bring back the "gold" to spend here. After all you were the one who said it was getting to be expensive to live there. Remember that Dorthy said there is no place like home ,there is no place like home!! You have called me a non functioning illerate when you can't seem to absorb and understand what was written in the American english I and others can and do understand. Why don't you "take the time to figure it all out " some time soon in regards to what I wrote. No one that I know of said that you don't care about the U.S. You do have ,as you said , balls but I am starting to wonder if they are rolling around in your head rather than in your daringness to be the adventurous investor person you said and have stated you are. Now how illiterate am I?

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

michael cook — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 21:44:10 -0000

Hey Bilge rat and Mr. Carlson,
I love how you guys claim you're not in the personal assassination mode. But that's just what you do when someone dares to stand up to you.
Bilge rat, when I winked at you CR comment, I then went on to say how frustrating it is that "development" is destroying the very things that made Costa Rica so desirable in the first place.
Then Birmingham, who's posts reveal time and again the poor sap is functionally illerate, starts saying I'm going to bring my WEALTH, back from Costa Rica and live like king here.

Guys, I'm just a working stiff trying to figure it out too.

Just because I had the balls to take a risk and buy property in Costa Rica before CR became hip and trendy doesn't mean I still don't care about the US

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 07:40:08 -0000

Hey Bilge Rat , I just read the post " Divide the people and raise taxes " . Mike said its costing more to live there now. When he bought his place it cost 6300 dollars and now its worth in excess of 100,000 dollars. I can see it now!! He sells it off and brings the "gold" back to the U.S. thereby helping to cure our economic woes and he probably will never have to bus tables again . Maybe will buy a second home and live on some beach front property to hob nob with the rich and famous with the left over dollars he brings back with him!! I couldn't resist the comedic tease here but I think I finally got my past point across in doing it.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 12:41:12 -0000

To Mr. Carlson and Bilge Rat , I thank you for your blessings and the faith spoken about and I do appreciate and will remember it . I maybe a Crankshaft type of character [comic sections of many papers] but I feel my past experiences ,as much as other peoples , should be expressed and passed on ,hopefully, for the betterment of those who will follow as time goes on after we three are long gone. I don't want to seem so down in saying that but as one gets older they do look back and say where did we go wrong and what can we do to remedy those things. Thanks again, guys you made my day and keep on with your well intentioned commentaries.!

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 10:11:33 -0000

Thanks, Harry.
Keep the faith!
;-)

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

jacrlsn — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:57:04 -0000

May GOD bless you, Mr. Birmingham.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:21:28 -0000

To Bilge Rat and any other sensible thinking person , To say I'm xenophobic is Just to insulting coming from someone of Seamus and the "brain", Michael , ways of thinking ,etc.. When one admits to having been an illegal and the other saying he is a citizen who lives part time in Costa Rica and can say what they have I leave it up to the reader to decide if I'm right or wrong about not wanting to go further . All one has to do is read the previous writings of all here on the subject, especially paying attention to their ways of writing, of ours as well to see why I feel as I do . And while your at it go to all the other soapbox subjects to see how these individuals think through their writings. I maybe an " illiterate " older man now but I do have the thinking of one who has experienced more than some having been brought up less than rich or average in my younger years. I didn't live on the beach next to the Rogers family with admitted disdain for them due to the things the Eagle Tribune wrote. I did live in a wonderful average home with great parents and was brought up to be kind to others which isn't what has happened here with the critical writings given me and others by the writings of some here. Like I said prior you can't continue to beat an already dead horse and expect it to get up. Now do you understand why I've decided even more so now than what I did say previously about just three of us being involved in the issue with the "brain" taking control ? Thank you.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:20:33 -0000

I will no longer feed or support the troll....
I'm done....
:-)

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 15:18:49 -0000

Seamus, have you actually read and comprehended what I have written???? Please read the following verrrry slowly, Seamus......

I SUPPORT LEGAL IMMIGRATION...

Now slowly repeat it until it sinks in....

Is that clear enough for you????

If a LEGAL Guatemalan family moved into my neighborhood, then I would welcome them with open arms, as would my neighbors...

'Nuff said.....

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Seamus O Tigh. — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:34:41 -0000

Rat, come on now, the bullhorn doesn't work here.

As I mentioned before one should never apologize for calling out xenophobia and bigotry where it’s seen, you would agree with that right. You kinda have to in todays world even if you don't believe it.

And Michael, take Harry on the basis of what he says not how he says it.

Harrys take on the SS office is Xenophobic; the idea that the government is being hoodwinked by illegals is ridiculous. Two people were talking loudly about they were in entitled as citizens, but with foreign accents which, this provoked a reaction in Harry. Xenophobia 101.

And you, Rat, the ERs are being over run with illegals, and how do you know, well just listen to them, right? Since you didn't answer my question I'll split the difference with you, you do spend a lot of time in ERs (plausible) but you don't have that decoding device (to sci-fi-ish) so i have to believe that you are using your keen ghuman senses. I am showing my intelligence again right, thanks for noticing btw.

Again would you welcome a legal Guatemalan family into your neighborhood? Or would you even stop yourself from complaining to your other neighbors about it? Answer that question honestly and then maybe your concern about the "law breaking illegals" can taken as just that.

By the way Rat, if some said to me "So where do you get off lecturing us?" could I say "Once again, when confronted with an opinion different than one’s own, the petulance, childish behavior sets in."

Answer your original question, well lets see I said yeah congratulate me, then there was I came here for adventure, are we back to the "So where do you get off lecturing us"?

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Thu, 07 Feb 2008 06:15:03 -0000

There goes the name calling again, "xenophobe" and "bigot", by none other than our favorite former illegal on this blog, Seamus. I could think of a couple of choice names to throw out towards you and your position, but decorum, respect, and the way I was raised will prevent me from doing so.

Seamus, you seem to be an intelligent individual, why are you reverting to the name calling tactic?

Once again, when confronted with an opinion different than one's own, the petulance, childish behavior sets in.

BTW, you still have not answered my original question.....
:-)

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 21:17:21 -0000

Michael , If being illiterate is knowing when to give up as my last message said then what are you? You just do not seem to get the hint . Its been hours since the message was sent and I don't see any reaction statements from the other two people we exchanged opinions with. Maybe we three are all illiterate as you claim me to be and your the all mighty brain we should bow down to and do your wishful bidding. Stop beating the dead horse, it just isn't going to get up.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

macsurf — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:31:58 -0000

Mr. Birmingham,
Are you really as illiterate as your postings suggest?

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:56:50 -0000

Michael , I am not an advocate of or for censorship and I do say ,yes, I'm very American. Without your answering I ask what you are...If you are you are as you say you are you would be willing to give others the chance to come forward and view their opinions . It is pretty obvious to me there isn't any more than us four in this debate of opinions. All you seem to be doing is furthering a debate with a want for a fight. How un AMERICAN of you ,SIR!! Give it up -- no on e else is joining we four in this exchange of opinions.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

macsurf — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:01:41 -0000

So, Mr. Birmingham, now you're advocating for censorship. How VERY democratic and "American" of you!

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Wed, 06 Feb 2008 08:41:38 -0000

Seamus, I'm glad you can say your out of the shadows . My Grandparents [all four] came out of the shadows when they became citizens. In answer to the S.S. office incident I agree that they had to be or were supposed to be legal immigrants. It doesn't mean that they truly were as you can probably agree to if you read the papers and see what some immy/gimmees are doing indentity wise . I want to say that we do agree to disagree in some areas but the intent is to try an make things mutually better for us all. I think before we go any further with our gripes we have to stop or be barred from the soap box by the paper. It shouldn't be all about us making comments only and there hasn't been more than the four of us in this confrontational issue that I do think is getting out of hand. I appreciate and thank all involved here for there thoughts and opinions that we shared however viewed as.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

seamus o tigh — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:02:09 -0000

Michael never apologize for calling out bigotry and xenophobia,

Harry you realize that the people you were talking about are legal immigrants, otherwise they would not be in the social security office. The answer to your question is yes, can I come out from the shadows now and when were your grandparents allowed to.

Rat, I am shameless, but I am honest, they tend to cancel each other out. Now honestly how many ERs have you spent time in and were you issued some sort or decoding device to tell who were the legal and who were the illegal? Or is it the bullhorn that you were listening to? Someone is stealing your inheritance Rat but it is not Jose from Mexico or Huang from Cambodia. Tax cuts for the rich will benefit us all right? In answer to questions about picking and choosing laws, well I speed sometimes, don't drink and drive anymore and taxes.. what about you. And you didn't but you did, didn't you.

The first line I wrote here was that this frenzy about illegal immigration is a farce, the point of our back and forth. It is a farce, the latest to keep us worked up.

In the end, I am honest enough to say that a Laotian family moving in next door would cause me alarm, but happy to know that I would question that feeling, I hope you can all say the same.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

macsurf — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:30:20 -0000

OK Seamus and Bilge rat,
Chill out a bit.
You both have very valid points.
BR is right that people should not come here illegally.
But the fact of the matter is, people have been coming here illegally since the country was founded.
remember,the acronym "WOP" to describe many Italian immigrants? it stood for Without Papers.
Seamus, I agree with your assertion that the vast majority of immigrants, whether documented or not, are hard working people just looking for a better life for themselves and their families.
BR, your assetion about illegals and emergency rooms intrigued me. It came on the heels of a letter to the editor in the Tibune owned Daily Snooze of Newburyport.
In that letter, the author claimed eight five county owned hospitals in california were forced to close because of the "direct impact" of uninsured illegals receiving uncompenated care.
So, being the former social worker and freelance writer that I am, I did some digging.
It is true that many border area, county run, public hospitals in california and throughout the south west are closing their doors, as they are in many parts of the country.
But, according to a joint Hospital Association of America and Government Accounting Office study, it is not because of illegal immigrants draining the public hospital system in those locales.
In fact, only about 25% of those facilities' uncompensated expenses could be attributed to illegal aliens. 75% of those uncompensated expenses were attributable to native born Americans and immigrants here legally having no access to health insurance.
Today's economy, especially in the service and hospitality industries, cannot survive without immigrant labor, whether its is documented or not.
All one need do is look to the panic Cape Cod hoteliers, B&B owners, and restauranteurs are are living with since, for often bogus reasons of national security and this anti-immigrant nonsense, it was announced the guest worker visa program that allowed workers fom jamaica and Eastern europe to come for the summer season to bus the tables, clean the toilets, and change the sheets of affluent American tourists playing on Patty Page's old cape Cod, is going to be drastically restricted.
I work in the hospitality industry on the Outer cape as a waiter in the summer to fund the maintenance of my little cabina, and I do mean little, in the rainforest. The only reason I can work there and have it be financially feasible, even though I make what some would consider good money, is because I have a long standing relationship with a friend who rents a beautiful room to me for a fraction of what he could get for it in the open rental market.
There will be no workers this summer to do those lower end hospitality jobs thanks to, and sorry Bilge rat, bigotry, xenophobia, and plain, old fashioned fear.
The economy of the Outer Cape cannot function, anymore than than the nation's can, without immigrant labor.
And this summer on Cape Cod is going to drive that point home for all to see in a very, very painful way.
So, come on guys. Let's all lighten up a bit. After all, unless one of us is filthy rich and can stand apart from all the rest of us, we are , even when we disagree on some of the fine points, all in this together.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:48:23 -0000

Bilge Rat , I couldn't agree more with what you've said to Seamus . The example of emergency rooms are only one thing and there are many more. - - Seamus, I can say what you quoted me on. I spent more than an hour waiting for my turn in the Haverhill , Mass. S.S. office to be seen. There amongst us all were two immigrants talking and complaining about the money they were going to get and the wait to be seen. They kept it up with their complaining about the things they were entitled to and finally I spoke up and in a very controlled nice way I told them if they didn't like their present situation to leave and let us do our business. The security guard stepped in before they could protest any further. Let me ask without your possible infuriation , are you now a citizen of the United States ? If not then you're one who should be more respectful of your status here . Again, if you aren't a citizen then you should be quite and in the back round , so to speak, until you do become one. Oh !! and by the way , I do know immigrants that work instead of holding their hands out for things . My grand parents were among these of today when they came to this country before w.w. 2 and they stayed here as did their children and made good citizens of themselves. I hope you will as well.

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

bilge rat — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:02:45 -0000

Seamus, you are shameless....
In keeping with you and your ilk, you dodge the legal immigration point simply because it fits your personal and political agenda. I never said anything about being born in this country. Go back to my post, and read it slowly.

As I stated earlier, there is nothing wrong with LEGAL immigration. So how many of our other laws have you chosen to ignore because you don't feel like they should apply to you? Please, feel free, pick and choose whatever other laws you feel like ignoring, you have the backing of the democrats, anyways....

As far as the poor, downtrodden, meek, hard working illegals being too proud to accept "handouts", check out your local hospital emergency room. The handouts the illegals are receiving are not only monetary...

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Seamus O Tigh. — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:07:09 -0000

Harry, how immigrants do you Really know that you feel morally justified in making a statement like "What I do mind is the attitude that most new comers have is that they are owed every thing once here" . The illegals I have had interaction with over the last 20 years or so (rat take notice) whether they are on my roof, pumping my gas or and standing outside Home Depot morning after freezing morning are too meek and still to proud to beg for handouts. It is very doubtful that your views are based on anything more substantial that the rantings of some over paid TV or radio personnality, and if that is the case shame on you for casting such a stone.

Now back to the Bullhorn-

Rat, your final question, "So where do you get off lecturing us?" begs for clarification, what qualification do you think I need to speak up on this subject, you are saying is that I am not quite American enough to have an opinion, right? I am foregin so why don't I go back to where I came from and look to the problems there? Is that it? Is the true test whether you are really American or not is whether you happen to be born on this land? Some one who chooses to be here doesn't qualify? True colors rat, true colors (or would you rather I say colours, eh?)

Immragtion probelms in Ireland, poohy, yeah I have done a 'little' research into the immigration debate in Ireland also, mostly by talking to friends and family there and when I am confronted with it I consistently point out the hypocrisy of Ireland, above all places, being hostile to immigrants. Really come on, Ireland?

I came here for adventure Rat, the world is a big place and I was eager to explore it and believed that no goverment should be able to tell me that I can't, surely that is something we can agree on? So yes congradulate me for not accepting tryanny, and for taking on the responcibility of improving my lot in life.

Gald to read you Michael, keep trying to turn down the volume and turn up the inteligence

Re: Illegal immigration: How big an issue?

Harry Birmingham — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:40:51 -0000

Mr. Cook - The intent of my speaking up was and is my American given right. I am going to do the same again by asking you if you would be willing to give up half your retirement money to live in your Costa Rican home. That is so we who live here can live a little better by your helping to lower our costs of living . You may allude to that you worked for the money but you appear to be self thinking only. Our country and its people are in crisis because of all the money being spent in other countries and causes. To take our"gold" overseas to help people is one thing when they are in crisis but you seem to forget about the rest of us who helped build your right to have freedom to chose where you live. I don't mind if you live anywhere but I do when it comes to Americans you leave behind living in or near the poverty levels. I choose to stay in my country because I 'd rather do so for so many reasons ,among them personal ones. I wouldn't want to live in fear behind gated communities or have to carry weapons to go from place to place in Costa Rica or any other country where most of their populations are living in poverty . Is there any wonder why foreign people hate us Americans when anyone living there do not want to learn their language and flaunt the wealth they think we average Americans have. Thats a reversal of what we here are complaining about . It may seem I'm envious of you but I am not because I am one who will stand by firmly and help the best way I can to make this country great again amongst the nations of the world . Have you considered doing the same? That is why I ask if you are willing to accept half of the money in your retirement checks that you spend outside the country . Where is your caring for the Americans that gave you the freedom to live else where on their backs facing bad times here? You can answer but I won't return any further answers because I do not want to fight with you because I do expect you will be very defensive of my right to have spoken out as I have about the issues that I have.